Brook and Sarah are joined by Jessica from the Cluedunnit Podcast to discuss Young Sherlock and Enola Holmes, and how those productions explore Sherlock’s extended family.
Discussed and mentioned
Young Sherlock (2026) series
Enola Holmes (2020, 2022, 2026) films
Endeavor (2012-2023) series
Inspector Morse (1987-2000) series
Related episodes
Bonus: Young Sherlock (published July 21, 2026)
About Jessica
Cluedunnit Podcast
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Music: Signs To Nowhere by Shane Ivers – www.silvermansound.com
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Order Life or Delft by Brook and Sarah
Transcript
This transcript is generated by a computer and there may be some mis-spellings and strange punctuation. We try to catch these before posting, but some things slip through.
| Sarah | Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I’m Sarah. |
| Brook | And I’m Brook, and we both love mystery. |
| Sarah | Hi, Brook. |
| Brook | Hi, Sarah. Today we’re doing something we’ve never done before, and that’s a collaboration episode. We have Jessica of Cluedunnit Podcast with us, and she reached out to us a while back and suggested we do a crossover episode because quite honestly, our audiences are probably very similar. So, welcome, Jessica, and can you share with our listeners what Cluedunnit Podcast is all about? |
| Jessica Hird | Sure. Thank you for having me, Sarah and Brook. I’m so happy that we finally connected this. So Cluedunnit Podcast, we watch mystery television or film, and we try to guess whodunit before the first commercial break or the title sequence. So, when the cold open happens, we’re trying to guess with no clues, no context sometimes, and generally no accuracy. |
| Jessica Hird | And we’ve done about 100 episodes and we do do some um interviews as well with different um creators of shows and films and we also have mystery writers on recently suggesting shows for us to watch and giving us clues and and we’ve done some collaborations as well we really enjoy mystery genre. We are very much more on the film and TV side of it. But we I love it all. We love it all. |
| Brook | Yeah, that sounds like so much fun. It’s like the perfect thing that you want to do with your mystery loving friend, right? So, that’s awesome. Well, today our topic of conversation is right in line with that. We thought it would be fun as a group to do a comparison of two very popular Sherlock Holmes adaptations as of late. The Enola Holmes movies. And the new Young Sherlock series. So let’s get into it, you guys. |
| Jessica Hird | We talked about a couple of different options to talk about today and I was like, oh, yeah, the Enolas. I hadn’t watched them in a while. I hadn’t seen the third one. And so I went back to watch that. And then. I was like, “I’m not remembering some of the things”. And oh my gosh, I had so much fun going back and watching the first and second one as well as Enola Holmes. |
| Jessica Hird | Gosh, it was, I think I was, which I guess is weird to say for somebody who’s like… So into mystery TV and and film. I was so dazzled I think the first time around with all the visuals that I wasn’t following some of the clues. I wasn’t following um some of the just important exposition and just trying to get to know the characters and so now going back I was like gosh “I love this even more I would watch this again” um and then i was also It was perfect timing for me when… for you to suggest Young Sherlock because I had just finished The Other Bennett Sister. And so I was so prepared to see Donal Flynn on screen and be like, yes, give me this guy in a different role and so different. |
| Jessica Hird | It was so great to see his range. |
| Brook | Yes, I’m jealous because I don’t have the right streaming service to watch The Other Bennett Sister. So eventually I will get to do that. But yes, such good timing. And we had just barely watched the new Young Sherlock. And so ever it was all fresh in our minds too. |
| Sarah | Yeah, I… um re-watched the first and second of the Enola Holmes um films and I’m with you, Jessica I think like they are very They’re so clever. They are very easy to rewatch. Because there is so much going on, right. So, you do pick up something that second time around that you maybe didn’t see the first time. And what I really like is that, and this is probably because the source material is intended for a YA audience that it is something that. kind of a family can enjoy. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah. Yeah definitely. And I… I think so many of the… Um. The messages came through so much stronger. and i And doing the comparison, I think, has also been… exciting for me going back and watching Enola. Thinking about um this fresh Sherlock that they’re doing in Young Sherlock. |
| Jessica Hird | I watched a bunch of Matthew Parkhill’s um promo videos, talking to media, um promoting the show and him listing the different things that he was like, yes, we did that purposely. We did this purposely. We wanted this. We wanted this. So, seeing this fresh Sherlock versus um Henry Cavill as Sherlock. And then Enola and Eudoria, her mom, how those values play out. |
| Jessica Hird | ah I thought it was interesting, too. I think in both these. works, I guess we’ll say. um The… ah Women’s ah Property Act figures very strongly because it’s very connected to suffragettes and suffragism. So, it was interesting that they wove that into both storylines and made made it meaningful. |
| Brook | Yeah, you’re right. I i didn’t pinpoint that. But it was something they easily could have left out, but they made a point to bring in like the women’s rights movements that were happening at the time. That’s really interesting. |
| Brook | The first film was released in 2020. Do you guys think that it at all impacted the producers of Young Sherlock because visually there are some similarities and there’s a lot of action and fight scenes. um but what do What do you think? Do you think that they were noticing the popularity of Enola and wanted to kind of do the maybe boy version of that. |
| Sarah | Maybe. I mean, so the… Let’s maybe provide a little bit of context for the two shows, right? So Enola Holmes is… Sherlock’s younger sister. Um, And, the series really focuses on her. Sherlock is really a side character in in those shows. He’s portrayed by, as you say, Jessica Henry Cavill. But he’s not the he’s not the prime character. |
| Sarah | Whereas with Young Sherlock we meet Sherlock and Moriarty when uh they are in their late teens, early twenties. at university, and we see the blossoming of that relationship. And so, Sherlock is a core character. in that in that series but both of those series build out these families around them. |
| Sarah | They are both based on books. So that you know original source material for for both of them. But in terms of how they are visually shown to us I think you’re right, Brook. There are definitely some parallels between what the people behind Enola Holmes did and what Guy Ritchie did with Young Sherlock. But it feels like a, it feels Guy Ritchie-esque. |
| Brook | Mm hmm. |
| Jessica Hird | It really does. Yeah. The Enola Holmes, I… I was shocked. And I thought that it was interesting, too. And you mentioned this in your bonus episode as well that the um that Guy Richie, he directs the first two Young Sherlock’s, but then there are other directors for the other six. ah eight um episodes and I feel like you can really tell the difference, especially when you get towards 7, 8, 9, 10. um at the at towards the end of the series it’s it It is almost like, “Where, where did you introduce that? I don’t remember that. Like, where did this style or this graphic or this like there?” |
| Brook | Yes. |
| Jessica Hird | And that happens in TV shows. You always are, especially in the first season, you’re playing around with things and deciding to do this or that. But Guy Ritchie’s style is so specific. |
| Jessica Hird | And I really felt like even though Enola Holmes, totally different director, they actually executed. on that sort of sassy, sparky. straight to the camera, quick cuts, angles, speed, and and youthful vivaciousness like they really nailed it all three of them all the way through whereas um they really I think. gave other directors more of a leash in in their episodes of Young Sherlock so that you get like that the the haunted mansion episode. um And which is cool, like to have all those different styles and genres in one series in one season. |
| Brook | In Young Sherlock, we get like… kind of like being able to see the calculations of his mind, like his mind working. And then in Enola, we have like script on the, as if somebody was handwriting notes on this. screen. So that’s that felt very similar to me too. And helpful because neither of these have a Watson narrating that’s like explaining how this brilliant detective has come to the conclusions. We need a Watson. And in this case, I think those visual cues become that way for the audience to figure out how the the brilliant person has deduced it. |
| Jessica Hird | That is such a great point. I had not picked that out. but yeah there’s no Watson in this and they even one of the the media asked Matthew Parkhill “are you going to add a Watson in the second season of a Young Sherlock” and he was like “I, I mean i can’t really and I mean that would be a weird threesome though i think like they’re this strange triangle relationship but love triangle” because they have such a a lovely thing going with Moriarty and and Sherlock and trying and building that story. |
| Jessica Hird | Everybody’s trying. I’m probably not even going to nail it, but I feel like they, they have a hard time nailing it, even in the promos of trying to explain how …It can lay out how Reichenbach Falls can be so much more tragic when you realize that they were such great friends and that they essentially made each other. |
| Jessica Hird | In you know when you see see that story that they’ve made up in um Young Sherlock how much it could be such a heartbreaker. Also, I really appreciated this topic for um today, too because I have always joked about um So we so kind of started our podcast just as a little background talking watching After watching Endeavor, because they have such great… ah do you Did you ever watch that show? Which is like baby like a baby…um Inspector Morse. It’s… the prequel to Inspector Morse so i always called it like Muppet Babies and like how we became obsessed with that like in the 90s and the early 2000s is uh prequels of stories that we love. |
| Jessica Hird | And. I think um thinking about. This Young Sherlock and and Endeavor being the prequel of… Inspector Morse, like you see. Endeavor’s kind of slide into inspector morse and how he is alone and is just always going to have problems with women. And he gets this house and he gets this car that he’s attached to and um and his relationships with his friends and with Thursday. |
| Jessica Hird | But it’s it’s this slide into Inspector Morse. Whereas… This… Young Sherlock is really gonna build us up to a heartbreaker, I feel like. And um that’s interesting to me. |
| Sarah | Yeah, i think I think you’ve captured that really well, Jessica. um Because ah Endeavor is a ah great example of another kind of um prequel ah extending the story. right of of something that is really well loved. Morse is incredibly popular. |
| Sarah | Even though they haven’t made a ah more separate, you know, he died. I think in creating either Endeavor or Young Sherlock or even Enola Holmes. it’s providing audiences who love these characters with…another way to love them. |
| Brook | Mm-hmm. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah |
| Sarah | There was one episode. I don’t remember which one of Young Sherlock where I was like “oh this is this is going to be really sad”. |
| Brook | Yes. |
| Sarah | Because you know where it’s going. Right. As you say, it’s this this heartbreaking relationship between Moriarty and Holmes, but also I think a heartbreaking relationship with himself. |
| Jessica Hird | Now… yes yeah |
| Sarah | And you you see where that where that comes from. And I think that’s maybe the difference between Enola Holmes and… Young Sherlock. Is because Enola Holmes she is not a character that exists in. canon right there is no younger sister uh so she’s completely fabricated and it’s a great, you know, it’s great fun to think about okay what if there were more people in their in their family um but Young Sherlock, Moriarty is someone in in in Sherlock’s life, right so like it is a relationship that um that we are familiar with. And so I think it’s a bit more not meaningful. That’s not the right word, but. there’s. something more to the Young Sherlock series because it really does lead us to that place, which Enola Holmes is never going to lead us. |
| Jessica Hird | Yes. |
| Brook | Yeah, great point, Sarah. And I think that that demonstrates the importance of this being a series because if they had decided to do Young Sherlock as a film and Sarah you and I have talked about this um in different episodes about different shows you get so much more ability to flesh out characters and develop backstories if you have eight episodes versus an hour and a half. And it it wouldn’t have worked. So I, I really appreciate the fact that they chose to do it as a series where… I think that what Enola Holmes is attempting to capture works as feature films, too, the same way. |
| Sarah | Agreed. Yeah. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah, it’s very hopeful. Um, the character going along with her, following her story. And… I… I thought that was interesting too, actually, is that she realizes in the first uh film that alone doesn’t mean lonely. |
| Jessica Hird | It just means following your own path. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that’s so hopeful, as opposed to something. Like. um Which, I mean, this is iconic. I’m not putting this down. But “if you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” I mean great quote great way of looking at life deduction, but it’s all very in your head. And of course, He eschews ah emotion. But it’s so um it’s so powerful. It’s such a fun and… um Cheers. yeah powerful that thought to be like i don’t know i can be alone i can choose my own path but i’m not lonely And I choose. I alone choose my path. |
| Brook | Mm hmm. |
| Jessica Hird | I think even they didn’t say that but i was like oh actually i like that even more. |
| Sarah | Well, and and I think you’re capturing really nicely the difference between the two. I think Enola Holmes as you say is hopeful, right. There’s, there’s optimism when you’re when you’re watching it. Whereas Young Sherlock is inevitable. Right? There is going to be some broken hearts along the way. |
| Jessica Hird | Yes. |
| Brook | Yes. |
| Brook | And it’s that car crash, you can’t help but watch because at the same time, I am so invested because I’m like, “how is this going to develop?” |
| Brook | Because at this point where they left us at the end of the first season. There’s some… friction but they’re still friends. And I’m like “what is going to happen?” I’m dying to know where the turning point happens um But you’re right, Sarah. We know going into it that it’s not going to end well. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah. How did you feel? I heard um in one of the interviews. Matthew well i guess in a couple of them Matthew Parkhill said that he really enjoyed Hero Feinnes is it Tierney? His last name. um his in he in his uh original audition he noticed that he made the choice to lean in whereas a lot of other Sherlocks are um kind of observers they’re just looking at the world, they’re emotionally detached, but he’s leaning in. And how did you feel about that when you were because it’s it’s very he’s He makes a lot of mistakes. He bumbles around, even though he’s completely brilliant. um He’s a little… Uh… He has… um A little bit of. Uh… he He feels that like he’s maybe losing his mind a little bit, if that’s the appropriate way to say it. um Yeah, so i any thoughts on… on that presentation? |
| Brook | I wonder what, because I’ll be very honest that I’m not. I would never call myself a Sherlockian, right? Like the people who know the canon and who are absorbed in it, I’m not one of those. So I wonder what somebody who is a diehard Sherlock fan feels about that, because it’s very. different from what the canon tells us about him. |
| Brook | But for me personally, I enjoyed the idea that. Yes, he’s brilliant. He’s… you know, a genius right off the bat. But, he’s also a real person. And you can watch him grow into his skills and like gain new skills. um I really liked that. Uh, But again, I’m not sure everyone would. They might like shake their finger at that. |
| Sarah | I think I’m i’m with you, Brook. I, I really liked how. He feels closer, right, then many of the other portrayals, even even if you think about it. Henry Cavill, who you know he’s on screen for I don’t know, a few minutes total, right? But when he is, I guess you could describe him as… as he’s leaning away from the audience. Right. |
| Brook | And other characters like the other people even in this story. |
| Sarah | Yeah, no, I think that’s ah that’s a really neat way of thinking about it. |
| Jessica Hird | The whole kind of leaning back that he does. um And even kind of. He’s so… bulky like as a man like as a as a superman as a literally like as a man the camera I feel like even like really takes him in. um because he is leaning back like if they were to Like… focus on him, like, give him a headshot, it wouldn’t show how he’s kind of I don’t wanna be really part of this. |
| Jessica Hird | I don’t wanna. uh i don’t want to get involved. I shouldn’t get involved. I’m curious but I’m not going to get involved like that’s your thing I know and I I respect that also because it’s a it’s a nice way of respecting her space and um and showing that he’s kind of like yeah you you do your own thing i I don’t. |
| Jessica Hird | Um, And again, she’s there to help, but. also also hands-off like they’re all very individual um which is like a fault of their raising and also a ah and also an asset of their, the way they were raised. |
| Brook | So that brings up a lot um of thoughts for me about the way that these Sarah brought it up earlier, these fictionalized characters. Each show has this set of characters that never appeared in the canon, are completely made up by the writers, and I find myself really fascinated by like why as an audience do we care? But we do. We want to know. like um about parents and siblings and the relationships that Sherlock has aside from Watson, which is all we almost all we get in the original canon. um I don’t know what that says if it’s like…shows us how much we revere him because what other character do we do this like I don’t care about Miss Marple’s siblings I just don’t I don’t even think about it. What’s the draw? Because it’s there. |
| Sarah | That’s a really good question, Brook. I don’t know. |
| Brook | Yeah, it’s a mystery, you guys. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah. Yeah, i I kind of. Start, I remember in 2020 thinking kind of like, why am I so into this? But I’m… I’m down. Like just in the promo, I was like, yeah, who is this? I want to i want to know more about this woman. |
| Sarah | I feel like he’s he’s just one of those characters. He’s like Santa Claus. Like everybody knows who he is. Right? |
| Jessica Hird | Yes. |
| Sarah | And so the opportunity to like imagine how he became who he is, I think, is is really appealing. It makes his stories more accessible. You know, you’ve got much younger people who are at enjoying Sherlock or become familiar with Sherlock who may go on and and pick up some of Doyle’s work. Or not, right? I mean, there’s a lot of other people who have been writing about Sherlock and and making films and shows that kind of feature Sherlock type characters that they can enjoy as well. You could spend a lot of time just looking through other films and shows that feature Sherlock, either modern day orin the past. |
| Brook | Yeah. Yeah, I like that, ah because these are targeted for a younger audience, definitely the whole family can enjoy them. But I like the idea that a whole new generation is becoming familiar with the character and he’s just going to continue to live on. |
| Jessica Hird | Yeah. Yeah. I was listening yesterday and sort of in preparation to. um some old recordings you can find them as podcasts of like Basil Rathbone doing Sherlock and I was reminded and I’m still trying to actually remember ah what it was. I think my first… Other than reading Sherlock, I think my first on-screen Sherlock was was maybe the Young Sherlock of the 90s. But I can’t remember. I haven’t dug up yet if that was the episode. I i remember watching um there was the the poison dart thing and that that plot blew my mind as a kid. I I was like, oh my gosh, I I cannot believe that. And I think I…annoyed all of my like childhood friends, like at any any time we were playing some sort of imaginative thing, I’d be like, “and then I have a poison dart”. And they’d be like. |
| Jessica Hird | “Okay, weirdo, how does that work?” And I’d be like, “well, you haven’t read Sherlock? What are you talking about?” Anyway, but I think we’re… watching and um And listening and reading Sherlock as a kid. |
| Jessica Hird | um He was so like you said, Santa Claus, but also he was so um He was so arrogant. And he really thought he was incontrovertible like “I know what is happening here and I am going to and this is how it’s going to play out and this is how we’re going to trap the person this is how we’re going to” or as Enola says, “put our… feet in the water for the sharks to bite, try to get the sharks to bite”. um But I was listening to the Basil Rathbone. And… I think… A- It was ah ah A Study in Scarlet. um some part of it or no maybe it was another one. |
| Jessica Hird | uh Hugh Bonneville does a reading of Sherlock by the way and I was listening to that that was really fun too but I, I think it was the other one where yeah Sherlock says “we’re gonna do this and we’re gonna set up the character and mark my words they’re gonna come for the ring and it’s gonna be it’s good this is the way it’s gonna go down” and it totally doesn’t happen that way. |
| Jessica Hird | And I was like “Oh, I remember him being like just Spot on perfect as a kid.” And I think I, again, was probably just dazzled by his dazzled, I don’t know if that’s right or intimidated by his arrogance and so i also am enjoying these the Young Sherlock and the and the Enola Holmes For showing Sherlock showing well not so much Enola because she does she is in a state of like “I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m going to figure it out”. I just have to do some slow steps but she doesn’t have the arrogance about her and also the Henry Cavill doesn’t have so much of the arrogance to his character. He has a lot of wondering like has he going to figure it out. Especially in the second Enola Holmes we see him like with his murder board essentially trying to figure out the the bank heist. |
| Jessica Hird | And then in the Young Sherlock, we… Again, he is arrogant, like when he goes and talks to his teachers, but he bumbles around and doesn’t figure it out the way he he thinks it’s going to happen. And gosh, I just really appreciate it so much. That arrogance is sometimes really grating. I think I enjoyed Watson for that purpose because he could be. So. Um, he would be annoyed and we would be like, yeah, that is annoying. |
| Brook | Yes. |
| Jessica Hird | Why do you keep living with him? |
| Jessica Hird | And as you pointed out, Brook, we don’t have him in these. So, it is nice that we have a different a different Sherlock a different a character in Enola, because then we don’t have to ah There isn’t anybody that we have to. |
| Brook | We don’t have to be quite so annoyed. |
| Jessica Hird | Um, Yeah, we don’t have to be annoyed but and we don’t have to join ourselves to another character to be like, yeah, he is annoying. Thank you. |
| Jessica Hird | I was interested to know from you what you thought of, well, first of all, we have two contrasting mother characters in the Enola Holmes and then the Young Sherlock, um which we, again, don’t have any mothers in the ah in the original, in the Arthur Conan Doyle. And then we have a dead father and in Enola Holmes, which is kind of a jumping off point for her relationship with Tewksbury. But then um the father. Oh, my gosh. In Young Sherlock. I mean not to spoil things but… |
| Sarah | He’s a piece of work. |
| Jessica Hird | Yes, a piece of work. Yes, well said. And also, I thought. I mean, it kind of – there’s no way after Handmaid’s Tale that I could ever think of him, like, when he’s on screen. Like, to trust him, I really had a hard time with that, like, going on first. And then I was like, oh, thank God. Okay. I Yeah, they they definitely played him creepy, and then he was – or not creepy, but as you said, piece of work. |
| Brook | Sinister. |
| Jessica Hird | Yes, sinister. So what were your thoughts on these additional characters in the stories? |
| Sarah | It’s a good question. I think the mother. characters in both, even though they are very different. They both really love their children. And we see that. Certainly, we see her in Enola Holmes we see that strong bond that she has with her mother and assume that that existed for the um for the older brothers. And then in Young Sherlock. Yes, she very clearly loves her children. But they have very different circumstances in terms of where they are in their children’s lives when we see them in these in these shows. But they still have ah have. quite a presence in their lives. |
| Brook | Yeah. I like that, especially to Enola Holmes, but I think also in Young Sherlock that we kind of get the hint that their brilliance comes through their mother. |
| Jessica Hird | Oh, yes. |
| Brook | Now, the father’s sinister qualities in Young Sherlock. I mean, I think that there’s a lot of like. Like he could have used that for good and he’s turned it into evil. So maybe. Part of Young Sherlock’s brilliance comes through dad too. But I just love that like Mom is such a guiding light in both of their… I don’t know. |
| Sarah | Mm hmm. |
| Brook | Maybe that’s not the right term because both of them are a little bit absent in their own ways. But I just feel like a lot of their strength and. and goodness comes from from their mom. |
| Jessica Hird | Oh, I love that, yeah. |
| Sarah | Yeah, you’re you’re right, Brook, I think. And I think you’re right as well that they that that brilliance comes from her. |
| Brook | Yeah, certainly in Enola too, right? Because like the mom is the one who teaches her all about ciphers. and um Yeah. And did the same for Sherlock. We hear that along the way. So it’s pretty cool. |
| Sarah | Jessica it has been so much fun to have this conversation with you thank you very much for joining us. Do you want to share where our listeners can find you? |
| Jessica Hird | Thank you very much, first of all, for having me on. It’s been really lovely to talk to you both. And I hope to have you on to talk about your book and suggest a show for us to watch on Cluedunnit. And you can find us, Cluedunnit Podcast, on any of your podcast platforms, also YouTube. We’re also cluedunnitpodcast.com online and on Patreon and Instagram and Facebook. Yes. Thank you. |
| Brook | That’s wonderful. We’ll definitely include links and we would love to come on this your show and maybe recommend a show for you and Jacob. Thank you for being here today, listeners. But until next time. |
| Brook | I’m Brook. |
| Sarah | And I’m Sarah. And we both love mystery. |
