For some mystery fans, there is no place for romance, and for others they can’t get enough of it. Brook and Sarah discuss when (and if) romance and mystery should mix.
Discussed and mentioned
Truly Devious series, starting with Truly Devious (2018) Maureen Johnson
The Inheritance Games series, starting with The Inheritance Games (2020) Jennifer Lynn Barnes
The Alphabet series, starting with A is for Alibi (1982) Sue Grafton
Temperance Brennan series, starting with Déjà Dead, (1997) Kathy Reichs
Wrexford and Sloane series, starting with Murder on Black Swan Lane (2017) Andrea Penrose
Lane Winslow series, starting with A Killer in King’s Cove (2016) Iona Whishaw
Cormoran Strike series, starting with The Cuckoo’s Calling (2013) Robert Galbraith
Inspector Gamache series, starting with Still Life (2005) Louise Penny
Lord Peter Wimsey series, starting with Whose Body? (1923) Dorothy L. Sayers
Thursday Murder Club series, starting with The Thursday Murder Club (2020) Richard Osman
The Cameo’s Secret (2023) Brook Peterson
Veronica Speedwell series, starting with A Curious Beginning (2015) Deanna Raybourn
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Transcript
This transcript is generated by a computer and there may be some mis-spellings and strange punctuation. We try to catch these before posting, but some things slip through.
| Sarah | Welcome to Clued in Mystery. I’m Sarah. |
| Brook | And I’m Brook, and we both love mystery. |
| Sarah | Hi, Brook. |
| Brook | Hi, Sarah. Well, you know, we’re getting close to Valentine’s Day, so it’s a great time to talk about romance and mystery. |
| Sarah | That’s right. And for some people, a love interest mixed into a mystery makes the story. For others, it’s a deal breaker. Whether you like your mysteries with a side of flirtation or a helping of characters tearing their clothes off, there is something for everyone. Romantic storylines have long accompanied mysterious tales. Jane Eyre and the strange goings-on at Thornfield while she falls in love with Mr. Rochester comes to mind when I think of early examples. Since then, there have been many others, and Brook, I think you and I will suggest a few. |
| Sarah | And I suspect that we will come up with a few surprises, since romantic love isn’t the only kind of love that authors can draw on. So, let’s get started. Brook, how important is a love interest in the mysteries that you read? |
| Brook | Well, you know, I think that I tend to like that secondary story of a little bit of romance going on. I looked at some of the things that I’ve liked over the years as far as and book series or television series, and they usually do have a little bit of a, you know, will they, won’t they get together in the background? But I definitely want it to be the secondary plot. How about you, Sarah? |
| Sarah | So i I think I can take or leave a romance plot. like i It’s not what necessarily draws me to a story. But I agree with you. I think my preference is that it’s the secondary storyline rather than the primary driver of the um of the book. And I i think you know when I was doing some research about this, because I feel like I don’t read a lot of books that have that romantic element in them, there were a lot of names on lists that I saw of authors that I wasn’t familiar with. And so maybe that’s something that we could talk about. So one name that kind of was on every of the the various lists that I looked at was Nora Roberts. |
| Brook | And I I found the same. um And also on that list, J.D. Robb, which I think is just another pen name of Nora Roberts, and same. I have not read a lot of those. I’m sure that I you know have picked up one from time to time. But um I think that this is another spectrum, isn’t it? Because sometimes those carry us into what I think we would call romantic suspense, which is actually a subgenre of romance. But then you just don’t have to go very far and you’re into you know a mystery with romantic elements. So um this could possibly be another opportunity for one of Sarah’s Venn diagrams. |
| Sarah | um I think you’re right ah that I would categorize Nora Roberts as romantic suspense. So I had never read any of her books until very recently I picked one up. I’m not quite through it yet. I have to say that it’s maybe not an author I’m going to return to regularly. |
| Sarah | But she has so many books that I imagine that they’re even just within her works, there’s a bit of a spectrum in terms of what you can expect. But this one is there’s definitely a romantic element that I think is the driver of the story ah although there’s this suspenseful element as well, where ah the main female character is essentially being stalked by another character. So we already know who that character is. There’s no mystery around who he is. It’s more, is he going to catch up to her, right? |
| Brook | Uh-huh. |
| Sarah | As she has this blossoming romance with another with another character. But as you say, there’s there’s Nora Roberts and J.D. Robb, and I imagine like she’s got so many titles to choose from and is obviously very popular with her readers. |
| Brook | Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that they have a lot of similarities with domestic thrillers, but with a more emphasis on, on the romance. Um, and as you say, and this would go with thrillers as well as many times the dark force isn’t a mystery that they’re trying to solve, but rather they’re like trying to get away or, you know, save themselves. so |
| Sarah | Yeah, yeah, yeah, when I think about that Venn diagram there, I think is a lot of overlap with domestic thriller and um romantic suspense. |
| Sarah | But there are a lot of mysteries that, as you say, there’s a subplot where a romantic relationship develops. um And it is you know I think it adds color to the characters, right? It’s one of those things that, as readers, we can identify with. um you know I think most people have had romantic feelings for someone else. and you know, can appreciate that little flutter that the character gets when another character enters the room or says something. And then, you you know, you can kind of see how that how that relationship develops. And um I can think of examples in YA as well as, you know, historical golden. Like there there are so many um examples of that. |
| Sarah | One of the stories that came to mind when I was thinking about YA was the Truly Devious series, and there’s ah you know a romantic um element that is is throughout those books. And so that series is written by Maureen Johnson, um as well as The Inheritance Games, which are, I think, mysteries without murder. um Or if there is a murder, it’s or you know if there’s a death, that it’s quite removed from the main part of the of the story. um And that’s a series written by Jennifer Lynn Barnes. |
| Brook | Both really good examples. And I would agree, I think that having the romance involved really can humanize ah the characters, um especially if we’re dealing with a really hard nose detective type, you know, it’s It gives us a, yeah I’m thinking of Kinsey Millhone. She has this on again, off again relationship with Dietz who comes into town and then leaves. So it’s it’s very, um you know as a reader, you’re kind of being drawn in and pushed and pulled. But you know she’s a very pragmatic black and white character. |
| Brook | We get to see a softer side because she really does have feelings for this guy and she really wants I think deep down to have a ah partner. um And so I like seeing that it it changes the way we see her and we can sympathize with her. |
| Sarah | The way you described the relationship that Kinsey Millhone has reminds me of the relationship that Temperance Brennan has in the series by Kathy Reichs and she’s got this, um I think he’s an officer with the Surite de Quebec ah in Montreal because she splits her time between Montreal and and North Carolina. um And you’ve got that that tension as the series continues. |
| Brook | And again, it really helpful with that character in particular. |
| Sarah | I thought of some examples in historical mysteries, Brook. Andrea Penrose writes the Wrexford and Sloane mysteries, which starts with Murder on Black Swan Lane. And there’s definitely some ah romantic tension between the two main characters. um And I you know don’t want to give away any spoilers, but there’s yeah their relationship progresses through the series. |
| Sarah | And Iona Wishaw writes a series that’s set in post-war rural British Columbia, and her character, Lane Winslow, develops a relationship with, ah so Lane is a amateur sleuth, and she develops a relationship with a police officer. And that’s ah a trope that we see a lot in these kinds of storylines, right? The the amateur sleuth um develops or has a history maybe with the police officer or police detective. |
| Brook | Absolutely. Yeah. um Those were are both great examples and series that are new to me. Another example that I thought of that goes along with that is Cormoran Strike and Robin Ellacott in Robert Galbraith’s series. That has been such a fun relationship to watch unfold. ah And I don’t know about other readers, but I just really root for them getting together. Although you know that is a big risk that a writer takes, isn’t it? Because typically in romance, once the question is answered of whether or not they’ll become a couple, it kind of fizzles out, doesn’t it? We saw that we, we can see that in other series where once that is resolved, it’s not as much fun to to take be involved in those characters’ lives. |
| Sarah | I think that can definitely be true, Brook, but it can also be true that if there’s an established relationship at the beginning of the series and you see the love and affection that the characters have for each other deepen over the course of the series, that can be satisfying as well. And I’m thinking of Louise Penny and her Inspector Gamache and the, you know, this deep love that you see him feeling for his wife throughout the series. And she doesn’t play a significant role in in the mysteries. She’s involved, but she’s not one of the main characters or main investigators. But you certainly see this the importance of her in his life in the books. |
| Brook | Yeah, that’s a great point, that in those situations, the author has done something different and had more intention, I think. Even in Dorothy L. Sayer’s ah series with Lord Peter Wimsy and Harriet Vane, you know they grew into a ah warm and loving marriage, and they continue she continues to use that relationship throughout that series. |
| Sarah | Yeah, and another Golden Age example that I thought of was Marjorie Allingham, Albert Campion, and Lady Amanda, and the way that that relationship you know continues through the the series of of books that she wrote. |
| Brook | Absolutely. And staying in that Golden Age, ah Agatha Christie does that with Tommy and Tuppence throughout her life. You know, they mirror that same age group. And yeah, so you’re right. It it can be done. um It has to be within a different intention, though. It’s not just to keep us drawn into the story. It really does, as we said earlier, deepen who the characters are. |
| Sarah | I think about Richard Osman and the characters in the Thursday Murder Club. And again, there’s, you know, there’s some love and and romantic interests peppered through those stories and then this deep love that ah the characters have for each other, which I think is really um something that makes readers love these stories. |
| Brook | I would agree. Yes, I think that it’s important to note that the romance doesn’t just have to be. Let me see. The idea of romance in a mystery can also be platonic. I think about when I wrote my middle grade mystery and it’s essentially a romance, but this is about 11 and 12 year old kids. And so it’s like a friend man. So like, will they become friends? Because at first, they’re oil and water. |
| Brook | And they can’t really get along at all. But by the end, you know, they have become very close. And that it’s that feeling of that growth of a relationship, whether it’s romantic or platonic, I think that makes a story so fun. |
| Sarah | Yeah, and and I think it’s exactly that, Brook. It’s that growth, right, that that we want to see as readers in the characters. |
| Sarah | What about Brook? I mean, just like in mysteries, there’s a real spectrum in terms of what we get with respect to the level of violence, right? We have cozies that everything’s really off the page and then you can read, you know, books that are much more detailed And I think the same is true um certainly with romance, but when you’ve got mystery and romance, I I don’t know that I’ve read enough to say that all cozies that have a ah ah romantic element are equally tame in terms of the way that they handle the romance. I don’t know if you’ve got um any any thoughts about that. |
| Brook | Yeah, I think to do it right, to not lose your audience, you probably need to um stay in that lane. So like with a police with ah police procedural or a domestic thriller, you might have some spicier scenes. But with a cozy, it’s going to be probably a sweet romance. But that is a ah great point to think about, that you um there’s going to be different levels of what’s on the page as far as the romance goes, just like with the mystery. |
| Sarah | So I think it was about a year ago that I read one of the books in Deanna Rayburn’s ah Veronica Speedwell series. And I was surprised. It wasn’t, I don’t remember it being particularly racy, but it felt like it was a little racier than I was expecting. |
| Brook | Her earlier series that I read years ago is a little bit like that too. um And I think this takes us back to what we talked about at the beginning. I think at least that ah set of books almost was in the romance category with some mystery involved. I really liked it, but I could see where somebody who really wants the mystery to take the forefront that might you know feel more like a bodice ripper to them and and that they just don’t want to get into that much of the romance. |
| Sarah | Yeah, and and I think that’s a good point, Brook. I think if the book is more of a romantic suspense, you’re going to expect more of that information that happens in the bedroom, right? Whereas if it’s a mystery with a romantic subplot, as a reader, you would expect that the romantic element will be treated with the same level of detail as the mysterious element. |
| Brook | Exactly. I was thinking of some ways to guarantee that true mystery fans would be okay with having some romance in the story and I think that that slow burn really matters because that is guaranteeing that you’re keeping the romantic subplot as a subplot you know it’s just kind of this thing happening in the background. But another way that it seems to be all right is if that romantic entanglement is really critical to solving the case like the the mystery turns on the fact that two people are um in a romantic situation maybe it’s a secret for part of the story. |
| Brook | Or then, and we’ve talked about this already, that idea that you have partners that are solving the crime that have some ah romantic chemistry, that seems to work as well. |
| Sarah | I think that’s right, Brook. I can’t think of any examples offhand, but I’m sure that I’ve read books where there was a ah romantic subplot that really didn’t feel like it belonged, right? Like there was no there is no reason for it. But as you just explained, if there’s if there is that reason, then readers are going to be a little bit more accepting, particularly if they are primarily mystery readers, they’re more likely to be a little bit more accepting of that romantic element. |
| Brook | That’s right. |
| Sarah | Well, Brook, it has been so much fun to chat about mystery and romance with you this morning. |
| Brook | It has been great. And with Valentine’s Day happening this Friday and also another Clued in Chronicle coming out, we want to know what you think, listeners. So, we’re going to include a survey. How do you feel about romance and mystery? So, make sure you go read your Chronicle this this Friday and reply to the survey. But for now, thank you for joining us today on Clued in Mystery. I’m Brook. |
| Sarah | And I’m Sarah, and we both love mystery. |
